Arianna Huffington’s vision of how AI will help humanity thrive
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Transcript
Among her many roles and accomplishments, Arianna Huffington is the founder and CEO of Thrive Global, a leading behavioral change technology company with a mission to redefine productivity through wellbeing.
Thrive Global is building an AI-powered assistant that will gently nudge people to take small breaks, add a few steps to their day, cut down on processed foods and pursue other habits that are good for our body and soul. The advice dished out by this assistant will be personalized for each individual, and delivered right in the flow of work through apps like Microsoft Teams.
In a conversation with Hayete, Arianna talks about why supporting people to enjoy happier, healthier and more productive lives is such a personal mission for her. With AI, she believes we now have a unique opportunity to help people focus on what it means to be human, and what matters the most to them.
Link to full episode transcript.
Produced by Larj Media.
Speaker 0
Welcome to Pivotal. I'm Hyatt Gallo, corporate vice president for commercial solution areas at Microsoft. I work with customers around the globe to transform their business through technology. At the center of every transformation are people who give technology its purpose. And that doesn't change with the advent of AI. It's actually being accelerated. People spark visionary ideas for leveraging technology. The release of AI technology like ChatGPT this year is exciting, but it has led to big question as we grapple with the best way to harness those tools to enhance and support the people behind the work. We like to talk about technology. I love to talk about it. But we often forget that technology is most effective when it supports people with purpose. This season will demystify AI by talking to the innovators using new AI technology to uplift their industries and augment their people, from education to journalism, to surfing. And it just illustrates what AI is about. Everybody thinks it's about tech. No, everybody's using AI. And that's what we're gonna show you on this season. I'm excited today to share my conversation with Arianna Huffington, who is the founder and CEO of Thrive Global. Thrive is a leading behavioral change technology company founded by Ariana in twenty sixteen with a mission of improving productivity and health outcomes. This feels very personal to me. Ariana and I have been in discussions for years on this topic and always thinking about how we can tie technology and helping humans in general. And with AI, we believe we have a unique opportunity to actually make humans more human. I hope you enjoy the conversation. Ariana, welcome to the podcast. We're so excited to have you join us. Speaker 1
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be with you. Speaker 0
And I know we're gonna dig into AI. But before we dig into it, you've had an amazing carrier, and you've been so focused on well-being and helping others. Can you tell us more about why? And why does this matter so much for you? Speaker 1
So as you can hear from my accent, well-being, I in in well-being, I mean, she was doing yoga long before people were doing yoga. She was meditating. Wow. And she had made the connection between taking care of ourselves and doing well at work. A pioneer. Yes. I mean, like, she would say when we my sister and I didn't want to meditate, she would say, you'll do better at your exams if you are more centered. And then I went to Cambridge, studied economics, moved from England to New York, started writing books, got married, had two children. Fast forwarding to two thousand five, I launched the Huffington Post. Two years into the launch, I'm now the divorced mother of two little girls working around the clock, having bought into the collective delusion that in order to succeed as a founder, as a mother, I don't have the luxury to take care of myself. And I collapsed from exhaustion, burnout, sleep deprivation. Started covering these issues on the Huffington Post, wrote two books about it, Thrive and the Sleep Revolution. And by twenty sixteen, I didn't want just to raise awareness, which I could have continued doing through a media company. I wanted to help people change behaviors. And for that, I had to build a behavior change technology company. So that's how Thrive was born. Speaker 0
How exciting. A pioneer, your mom. Health and productivity and things connecting. Speaker 1
And you know, Hayat, you and I have talked a lot about it. Even now, we have a lot of people who don't see the connection. Speaker 0
I know. And it's actually was gonna be my next question. You always say health is between doctors visits. Right? And we know that healthy, happy employees are more productive. However, it's still not happening. People are not paying attention to it. They're not doing it every day. They're not thinking about it. Why do you think it is? Speaker 1
So I've really looked into that. It goes back to the industrial revolution when we started admiring machines and revering machines and after machine software. And both with machines and with software, the goal is to minimize downtime. Mhmm. And we somehow forget that for the human operating system, downtime is a feature, not a bug. Speaker 0
Like this. Speaker 1
So it's like a real cultural shift that has to happen, a mindset shift. And then when that happens, we see the difference it makes on our work, our creativity, our leadership when we take care of ourselves. Speaker 0
So in your work with companies around the world, I know you're trying to drive this, to drive this change, to make this well-being part of the culture. What are the challenges you're facing? What are you seeing? Speaker 1
What we're seeing, especially if things don't go well for a company, if they have a bad quarter, especially for a public company, they suddenly think that they need to clamp down on any well-being initiative. So with companies like that, we started calling well-being initiatives productivity multipliers Ah. And kind of changing the language. Repositioning. Repositioning. Because even calling it well-being may seem for some people, especially during hard times, as too soft. Mhmm. And then a huge emphasis, Hayat, on data collection, collecting the data to show the ROI, to show the impact it has on productivity, on attrition, on recruitment, and on health care costs because most self insured employers are now dealing with the trend lines going in the wrong direction. You know, higher health care costs every year, burnt out employees, and, worse outcomes because we see the skyrocketing increase in chronic diseases like diabetes, obesity, cardiovascular diseases. Speaker 0
You're dealing with an easy problem, I see. So when you think about technology and I think for me, I really love the article you had in Times Magazine where you talked about AI and how AI should make humans more human. And if you think about it, there's a lot of anxiety today around AI. I think it was very different the way you approach this and the way you talked about it. Can you share more about your point of view on how you think about AI and well-being in the same sentence? Speaker 1
Yes. And in fact, I started thinking about that during, a conference around AI and also how how to live our lives with more fulfillment, less anxiety, less burnout that Danny Meyer hosted, just about twenty five people in Tuscany, which made it really special. And, I organized a session with Kevin Scott, you know, Microsoft CTO, and Reid Hoffman, who is on your board and who has been involved in AI from the beginning. Speaker 0
Yep. Speaker 1
And we made the theme of the session not about how can we align AI with human values, which is obviously a big and important topic. But how can we use AI to help humans be more aligned with human values? That is exciting. How can we have AI help humans, connect with our better angels, you know, the better angels of our nature as Lincoln called them? Because yet the truth is that we are all a mixture of the better angels and the worst instincts. And unfortunately, over the last ten years, we've seen technology in the form of social media appealing to the worst in us, you know, our sense of outrage, the things that divide us. Mhmm. And the results have been very, very difficult to deal with, especially among young people and mental health. So as we are now at the beginning of this extraordinary dawn, and given that incentives are superpowers Mhmm. How can we align incentives so companies can make a profit by appealing to what's best in people rather than what's worst in people? Speaker 0
That is that is actually very thoughtful. And and when you think about it and you think about AI in that context and the human values and aligning AI with the human values so that humans can be more humans, Where do you see the opportunities? Speaker 1
I think the biggest opportunity is around health. Because right now, we see literally hundreds of millions of people around the world. In America, hundred and thirty three million people in America alone have one or more chronic diseases. And AI, because of the opportunity for hyper personalization, can help people with the right nudges, the right recommendations at the right time being trained on an unfathomable quantity of data Mhmm. Around calendars, around biometric data, lab data, medical data, plus preferences like knowing what does Hayat love to eat, how does she like to exercise, what poetry does she resonate to? Which is going to be different than what Ariana resonates to. So this hyper personalization, especially now as we are seeing, the context window, getting bigger and bigger Mhmm. And memory getting better and better. Yes. The hyper personalization is going to be amazing. I love the way you talked about Speaker 0
it and and said, this could be the GPS for your soul. Yes. It will not judge you, It will need to find a new course for you and adjust around when you get it off. I just love this idea that you'll have a tool to help you give you nudges and help you get to whatever you decide is your goal. Speaker 1
Yeah. Speaker 0
AI just being the tool. I just really love that aspect in in that article. Speaker 1
And, you know, I actually got that idea from what, Microsoft said when you announced the Copilot, and I happened to be in Redmond. And Yeah. You and I had lunch. And and I love the saying that the copilot will help you remove the drudgery of work Mhmm. And connect you to the soul of work. And I thought, what about also connecting you to your own soul? Because we all have a place of peace, strength, and wisdom in us. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 1
Whether we call it soul or spirit or atman in Hindi, whatever name we give it, we all have it. And we don't live there all the time. Mhmm. But we can reconnect with. That's the GPS for the soul. And from that place, we reduce stress, we reduce anxiety, fear, and therefore are much more able to be productive productivity. Speaker 0
And, you know, when you and I have been discussing it, we call it, what about having an assistant for life, a copilot for life? So what would it look like? I know you're looking at building that kind of assistant for all of us. What is the area of focus for you? And when you think about that assistant for life. Speaker 1
So, yes, at Thrive, we are building this AI health coach. Mhmm. But you can call it assistant, you can call it co pilot. Yeah. Whatever name resonates with you. You can call it guide. You can call it sherpa. It's basically that good angel on your shoulder. That was your line, Hayat, and I love it, who guides you. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 1
And we see the the guiding being around five daily behaviors. And all that is based on the latest science. I stress that because it's very important not to see this as a warm and fuzzy, nice to have thing, but that's kind of essential for us to live what Greek philosophers used to call a good life. Mhmm. So the five behaviors, as you know, are sleep, which is foundational for our physical immunity and for our mental health, food, what we eat. And again, we are training the LLM only on the universally validated science. Like, we're not taking a position on keto or vegan. Simply reduce ultra processed foods, reduce sugar. Mhmm. You know, these two things, if we did that, we would transform health care around the world. Then the third is we call it movement. We don't even call it exercise. Because for some people, exercise may seem too overwhelming. Like, do I have to go to the gym? Do I have to, do strength training? No. Can you just walk? Yep. You know, can you, after multiple teams or sitting at your desk, get up and walk around your kitchen table if you are working from home. So we break it down into what we call micro steps, tiny little incremental steps that we call too small to fail. The fourth is stress management. And, you know, stress is unavoidable. There is no life without stress. But cumulative stress is avoidable. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 1
And it's cumulative stress that leads to hypertension or binge eating, binge drinking, people trying to wind themselves down. Our favorite feature, as you know, is resets that I think we talk about. Yep. And I hope we'll play yours. And the final is connection. Connection, if if you want, is the GPS for the soul. It's like connecting us with ourselves, connecting us with others, connecting us with our community, with our colleagues. It's like living a life of connection. Speaker 0
And what I love about what you're looking at as well is not to make it independent of the flow of work. You're trying to integrate this coach within your day to day life. Right? And and I know people say it's soft, but you need something to remind you that on your calendar today, you have absolutely no breaks. Yes. You're going back to back. You don't have time to eat. Maybe you should ask yourself, why not? And so I love the way you're trying to connect this coach as well with the tools that people use every day and bring all that data, the science, and the work data, what you're doing every day to try to really help the individuals at work. Speaker 1
I think that is the key, and that's why I love our work with teams. Mhmm. Because meeting people where they are, meeting people within teams, The results are extraordinary. We see with Pfizer, for example, that, the engagement with the Thrive app is fourteen percent. Mhmm. The engagement with Thrive on Teams is ninety one percent. Yeah. So just eliminating friction is absolutely key to behavior change. And and there's there's been a golden age of behavior economics, behavioral science over the last ten years. So we know what works. We know microsteps work. The chair of our scientific board is BJ Fogg, who's written tiny habits, breaking down behavior change into tiny steps, storytelling and community work. And also, it really works not to judge somebody on this journey because we're all a work in progress. Yes. Nobody's doing this perfectly. And like GPS, you know, your car is correct. You change direction. Speaker 0
And so talking about microsteps, one of the thing I love from Thrive is this concept of reset, where something can suddenly take you out of your reality and allow you to reset and put a stop to the stress, maybe to the madness of the day. Do you wanna share more about Reset, how it came to be, and what it is? Speaker 1
So Reset is actually one of my favorite features because it is so so short. It's like sixty seconds. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 1
But it's based on hardcore neuroscience that it takes sixty to ninety seconds to move you from the sympathetic to the parasympathetic nervous system and out of the fight or flight, provided you focus on conscious breathing Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 1
And things that give you joy and activate your sense of gratitude. So we've built, like, hundreds of resets that live within Teams. Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 1
And people can download them or their I see their AI assistant can recommend it, push it. But also, we've created personalized resets, which people can create in five minutes on the platform with things that give them joy. Speaker 0
So, Arianna, I'd love to look at your reset. I think it tells us a lot about who you're working with and who you're dealing with. So let me just click, and let me take a look. Speaker 1
As you can see, I I picked some of my favorite quotes and, things that give me joy. My children, I picked pictures that mean something to me. You know, they are not perfectly polished Instagram pictures. And through the years, be willing to be a beginner every single morning is is such a great thing to remember. My two little girls, and then here my oldest daughter getting married. Here, just one of those moments that can be captured that remind you of what you love about your life and my grandson at the end. And this is my favorite quote, live life as if everything is rigged in your favor. Because so often, we tend to focus on what's not working as opposed to what's working. Speaker 0
You know, it's interesting because look at us. We have a smile on our face. Yes. It works. Right? Speaker 1
It works, and it's sixty seconds. It feels longer, doesn't it? Because it changes the mood. Exactly. And one of the things I love, as we're all working with teams in multiple occasions, we now spin a wheel before a meeting. Speaker 0
Ah. Speaker 1
And one of us plays a reset. Oh. And it changes the atmosphere in the meeting. We have a glimpse into somebody's life and what they love, but it also kind of brings us closer together. And when Speaker 0
you think about the the pillar you have around connection Yes. Just watching your reset, I I kind of get a glimpse of who you are and it's just about family. It's what makes you happy. Speaker 1
That's what makes me happy and puts everything in perspective. Speaker 0
And all your quotes was about being positive. Speaker 1
Yeah. And, you know, I love my work, and work is full of challenges. And and family can be full of challenges. It's not like everything is perfect. But remembering what you are grateful for, even in the most stressful moments, that puts everything in perspective. Speaker 0
I agree. Speaker 1
And the music, you know, we made this deal with Universal Music so that we can use sixty seconds of universal music songs. And the combination of images, music, breathing, gratitude, joy Speaker 0
Mhmm. Speaker 1
Is really this magical combination. Now let's play yours. Speaker 0
Let's look at mine. So mine is very different. I know. But we are different. Okay. So for me, as I was thinking about what makes me feel better, I love movies. So here you see The Godfather. You do you see downtown Abbey. Absolutely fabulous. And these are things that, which is a French movie, which is hilarious, And I just love going back to it. And then my quote is, I can always choose, but I ought to know that if I do not choose, I'm still choosing. Speaker 1
Mhmm. I love that. Speaker 0
And I just love that quote because it tells you, you have to really think about not choosing means you're not choosing. You're not deciding for yourself, and you have to pay attention to that. And then what you can see there is some food. I love cooking, and so it just reminds me of food. And then, I have a few books, and these are books like Candide or the optimist or Les Fabes de la Fontaine or Le Rouge, Genoa, which are books that I love to go back to. Because growing up, some were very optimistic, and some also reminded you like the the Speaker 1
Yeah. The stand down. Speaker 0
Yeah. I love this book because it just shows you how complicated humans can be. There is no one answer. We're very different. There is layers. And so when I look at this, I'm always like, yeah. You know? Maybe tough right now, but it's complicated, but it will get better. Speaker 1
And I love how it it brings together parts of your history. Yeah. You know, from your early life to movies you love to current moments, and it and it's fascinating. I mean, it's like in sixty seconds having a glimpse into Hayat. Speaker 0
You did, actually. You know, it was actually interesting. My team, when we were setting up my reset, they were like, so we would like you to have landscapes and and things like that. And because that's what other people have done. And I remember looking at them and says, but that that is not me. That would actually those landscapes would not relax me. Speaker 1
Yes. Speaker 0
And I just went to the really what makes me smile? What what breaks do you know when you're going down a a route where you're not happy? I was like, what makes me smile? What makes what takes me out of it? And that's why I picked those things. But it's a great example of how reset is just effective. Right? Look at us smiling. I know. Speaker 1
I know. I love it. And I'll you know, I want to use your reset as an example of how different resets can be. Because our two resets couldn't be any more different. Speaker 0
Exactly. Speaker 1
And yet the the impact, the effect they have on us Mhmm. Both individually and together, is what resets are meant to do. Speaker 0
And and I really I would say as well, what I love about resets is how they give you a glimpse, as you said. It's like in sixty seconds Yes. You get a sense of what people care about. And when you think about when you work with people, first thing is you wanna understand who they are if you wanna work well with them. It's a great first step. Microsteps. Microsteps. Speaker 1
And, you know, because we're also data people, we've used resets in contact centers. And the results have been amazing. You know, just three resets a day because you know how they protect every minute of the agents' time, and reducing stress, improving customer success, success, and having a real impact just with three minutes a day. And now in places like AT and T, we started getting some anecdotal, the kind of testimonials. And somebody said, you know, if they offered us ten minutes, I would rather say give us sixty seconds and let's play the reset. Wow. Because if you have ten minutes or five minutes, most people are likely to go online. Speaker 0
Well, they're gonna take their phones and they're gonna stroll and they're gonna get their emails and Speaker 1
Yes. Go Speaker 0
on social media. Yeah. Text and then get stressed. Speaker 1
The news, and it's more stressful. So again, it's like that's part again of the coach giving you what your better self knows you need at that moment as opposed to when we operate from being depleted or just kind of wanting a quick dopamine hit Yep. And going down the rabbit hole of social media. Speaker 0
So when we think about AI, we've all been talking about responsible AI. So in the context of well-being and the coach that you're building for us to help us in our lives, How do you think about responsibility in that context? Speaker 1
Well, I think it's really important to ask some of the more philosophical questions that we have kind of been ignoring, but human beings have been asking them for centuries in every tradition, in every country. And I think when we ask these fundamental questions, you know, what is a good life? What is it like to be a human being? Because we are now in a situation, Hayet, as you know, when the cognitive abilities of AI are going to be greater than the cognitive abilities of a human Mhmm. Within three to five years, depending on who you talk to. I did a fireside chat with Sam Altman, and I asked him about having children, which he wants to have. And I said, what's the world that your children are going to come into? He said, my children will be the first generation of children that will never be more intelligent than AI. So if you look at that, then we need to ask the question, what is it to be human? It's clearly not going to be about IQ. Mhmm. It's not just going to be about EQ either. It's going to be about this deeper reality of empathy, wisdom, resilience. So increasingly, these are qualities that we want AI to be able to help humans cultivate. And so when I think of responsible AI and building AI responsibly, I always want to connect it to these fundamental questions. Because for a very long time, going back to the enlightenment and to have said, I think, therefore I am. Mhmm. And that's no longer going to be the case. Speaker 0
It's gonna be different for sure. Speaker 1
It's going to be different. I think it's going to be much more about wisdom than IQ. Speaker 0
It's actually very interesting. In that context, though, when you think about the coach, it's all gonna be about personalization and making it very relevant to you, to me, to everybody based on our own needs. Yes. So from a data perspective, you're gonna have to collect a lot of information around my preferences, what I'm doing at work, what I like, what I don't like, the poetry I may wanna read. So when you think about this aspect and you're building your coach, how are you making sure that people maybe don't feel like we're watching them? Because that could be Absolutely. A key blocker you will face with people. Speaker 1
So what is interesting, and I'm sure you have found that in your work, is that when people get value, they don't mind sharing data. I think people don't want to share data if they believe that data is going to be monetized, you know, to sell advertising. But but when they get value, we find that they they see this as a good exchange. Speaker 0
It's such a great point. Speaker 1
But, again, of course, it has to be used responsibly. But if it's used for the benefit of the user and the company doesn't use it to make a profit, that's going to be the key. Speaker 0
I love this answer. If it's in the benefit of the user, they should be okay with their data being collected. And I think you're right. I think most of the time what we've seen is people push back when they don't see what's in it for them. Speaker 1
Yes. Speaker 0
And they feel you're just collecting their data. When you talk about humanizing data, can you give us an example of what you're thinking about? Speaker 1
Yes. So whether we're working with corporate employees or frontline workers, we see that the data we collect can be humanized when we tell stories. So let me give you an example. We work with Walmart. They have one point six million associates. Most of them are, you know, on their feet all day, working in the stores, many of them dealing with obesity or prediabetes or hypertension. We are working with them on this six we we varied another behavior, which is money, because financial stress on top of the five behaviors can be a huge source of stress. So we also use financial rewards. So Walmart gives us a million dollars a year to spend, giving people an extra incentive to participate in these behavioral challenges and make money at the end. And the biggest prize at the end of the year is fifty thousand dollars, which is a significant amount of money. So the stories, in order to participate in receiving one of these rewards, you have to tell us a story of what you did. And the stories are so moving, and they elevate what we are doing beyond these are so many people who participated, and this is what they did to this individual story, this one person. And there's one story that I actually have on my desk because it moves me so much. She was one of the winners, and she actually wrote it on her personal Facebook. It wasn't even the story she submitted. And, her job is to stock shelves from eight PM to eight AM in a Walmart store in upstate New York. And she wrote how she participated in the Thrive Challenge, working on her sleep, her food, movement. She lost thirty four pounds. But what she she wrote is was so moving. She said, this is so different from winning the lottery because it's changed my life. It just it hasn't just changed my weight or how I look. It's changed how I live. It's changed how I bring up my children. It's changed my relationship with, my husband. And she said if you came to my home now, you would see my kitchen full of, tangerines and almonds instead of, chips and cookies. And she brought it home in a way which I think we have to be doing a better job at, making more accessible to people. Speaker 0
I just love this because it really back to your pillar of connection. Because you can then connect to those stories, and then you can see the possibilities for you. Exactly. Earlier about hope and people losing hope. This is a way to get hope. Think about this story. It's just amazing. She's saying I just fundamentally changed the way I live. It's not about losing weight. Speaker 1
Yes. Exactly. That's like a minor thing. Speaker 0
That must be dissatisfying to have that kind of impact. Very exciting. So I think anybody listening right now wants to get a coach. They want this coach. So what does the future look like? When can we get access to the coach? Speaker 1
Well, we are working on it now. Mhmm. Like you, we are big believers in launching, not an MVP, but an MLP, minimum lovable product. Yep. And, and iterating and getting feedback and seeing what works. And so that's what we're going to do. As soon as we feel ready do and continuously iterating. I'm Speaker 0
I'm gonna be the first candidate. I will admit. I need it. Speaker 1
You know, I love it when when Sam Altman said that Chargegbt four sucks. And what he meant is that compared to Chargegbt five it will suck. And, you know, he said it's my job to make sure it does. Mhmm. So that's part of constantly making something better. Speaker 0
I agree. Iteration, learning from the people who use it, and adapting. So now as we close and as we think about AI, looping back to AI, what gets you the most excited when you look ahead? Beyond building the coach, when you think about AI, what do you think about? Speaker 1
What makes me most excited is addressing the health care crisis. And that, like, brings together, my life now working on well-being and health and my life through, the Huffington Post and writing political books because I I I think that the growing health inequities are not just a failure of policy, a failure of resource allocation. They're a moral failure. Mhmm. Because when people are sick, and the majority of people are in one way or another, what happens is that they lose hope. And you see a lot of the polarization, is because people are losing hope, and they look for scapegoats. Mhmm. And so I feel that everything I care about is coming together on this, you know, the new technologies and what will make it possible. This big unsustainable health care crisis that we are facing, and also the opportunity to reduce unnecessary suffering. You know? One of the things we haven't done a good job on is putting flesh and blood on the data. Mhmm. You know, humanizing the data. Last year in America, there are hundred and fifty thousand foot and leg amputations of people who have diabetes, which is completely barbaric, completely avoidable. You know, diabetes, first of all, it's a preventable disease. But even if it's not prevented, it's a completely Treatable. Treatable disease. That's what I'm I'm really most excited about and have a sense of urgency about because wherever you look, you see that unnecessary suffering. Speaker 0
So inspiring. That's why we wanted to talk to you. Because, you know, a lot of people right now point to technology and see only evil. But I think as you said it, it's what we make of the tool. And in this case, if we can create this GPS cell a soul, right, then really help people help themselves because only you can help yourself. Right? And but just if you can have this life coach that can point you in the right direction, remind you you're off set versus what you wanted to do. That would be so powerful. And to your point, we could help so many. Speaker 1
So many. And it would make people so much more productive. I mean, just think of it. Mhmm. You know, when people are dealing with health crisis or even when there's somebody in their families. We have all the data that shows how it reduces productivity. Speaker 0
And even, I would say, a lot of people don't realize they have a health crisis. That's the worst. You think you're okay, and then you realize you're not okay. So we're excited. We can't wait to see it. Well, Speaker 1
I look forward to working with you. I've, loved spending time together, and this combination of, humanity and technology is really what is more needed than ever now. Speaker 0
And it's so inspiring. I know for somebody like me who works in a tech company, knowing that we can have such an impact with the work that we do Yes. There's nothing better for us. Thank you, Ariana. Speaker 1
Thank you so much, Hayat. Speaker 0
Thank you for listening to pivotal. I'd love to hear your story and your pivotal moment. So don't hesitate to follow me and share on LinkedIn. Audience information is also available in the show notes. Our show is produced by LARJ Media. That's LARJ Media. Special thanks to Lian Yang and our partners at We Communications. 
